5 years of podcast insights in 5 minutes

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Hey honeys and hustlers,

Today’s article is a slightly obsessive guide to making your podcast actually good. After 5 years of video podcasting, there are several rules and tools I’ve developed that help me craft what I believe is the best version of my show that I can afford to make. Time and money can fix every problem in filmmaking, but since we’ll never have infinite amounts of either, these are principles that I think apply to every price point and level. There seems to still be a debate about whether video is the future of podcasting, and whether video podcasts are even considered “real” podcasts, so I’m here to set the record straight.

I’ve heard endlessly from other creators who feel strongly that video podcasts aren’t “real” podcasts. My initial reaction has typically been, “Why are you hating on a creative format just because you can’t or won’t do it.” But then I dug deeper and took an opportunity to learn their perspective. People associate interview shows with being boring. This can totally be true when there doesn’t seem to be a clear premise to the show or interview; this is not the fault of the medium. People associate interview shows with “chatcasts” that drone on for hours and sound more like two drunk friends getting together than two people who are genuinely interested in a specific topic. I resonate with the fact that most people are terrible interviewers; this is not the fault of the medium. People feel that by adding video, you’re taking away from the essence that has historically been an audio medium, forcing creators to show up in a way that may not be what they originally signed up for when they started a podcast. Adding video is a net good in my opinion, but it is more expensive than an audio-only show and forces your creative workflow to look different. However, most people that complain about this also have crappy audio to begin with, no marketing strategy, and no audio post-production workflow to speak of; this is not the fault of the medium.

Honey & Hustle has gone through many iterations over these past 5 years, and I like to believe that this show has taught me how to become a better interviewer, host, creator, marketer, and community builder. So these are the confessions of a serial interviewer who finally figured out how to make a good show (I think). And these apply to audio-only podcasters as well, because I try to be nice at least one day of the week.

1. Make it easy for guests to say “Yes!” Too much back and forth between a guest can make it hard for them to say yes. You’re asking for their time, give them clear expectations and a timeline to schedule a recording. Want them to share the episode? Send them the links as soon as it’s live with social media assets. Want them to send you a headshot? Ask for it during the recording session or in an email following your recording so it’s fresh on their mind. Decreasing as much friction in the interview process helps you get from idea to recording to published episodes as quickly as possible.

2. Capture positive feedback. From your guests and from your audience. It’s always good to have social proof, but more importantly, it’s good to have kind words on hard days when you’re unsure about your podcast journey.

3. Downloads aren’t the most important thing. Sounds crazy, I know. It’s like saying views on YouTube are meaningless, which they aren’t. But neither tells the whole story. I stopped optimizing for individual downloads and started focusing on getting individual listeners to binge episodes and become repeat listeners. If your podcast is a body of work, wouldn’t you want people to experience the whole thing? If an episode doesn’t fit the quality standard of the rest of the episodes you’ve released (essentially the entire first season of my show) unpublish them. They’re reducing the likelihood that people will stick around, which is what you want.

4. Send people to one central place to find episodes. I’ve switched my podcast host 3 times. I’ve changed my podcast website host 3 times. I even started my show by posting my episodes directly to Facebook in addition to YouTube. It gets confusing for listeners who want to check out your show. Having one central link is really helpful. I currently do this with PodPage. It makes it so convenient to have all my videos and episodes under one URL, a convenience I vastly underestimated when sharing the episodes on social media.

5. Researching guests can and should include their previous podcast appearances. I used to think, “Why would I listen to other podcasts this person has been on? I don’t want to ask them the same questions.” But other podcast episodes can help you identify elements of their story that they talk about frequently, and gaps in the previous questioning that you may be able to fill. It’s not about copying, it’s about studying to make sure you’re asking unique questions and creating an environment where they feel comfortable.

6. In-person episode recordings create greater guest affinity. Many parts of me don’t want this to be true, but it is. Hosting a guest in person can be challenging (i.e. finding a quiet, sound-treated space) and expensive (if you have a behind-the-camera crew). However, the ability to craft an experience for them from beginning to end is unmatched. Having something for them to drink, talking with them before the cameras turn on, giving them a gift for taking the time to speak with you – it all adds up. I had so many more guests sharing that they were on my show when I gave them a coffee mug or t-shirt. They had something exclusive they could brag about online and use in their daily routine. Big investment, big payoff.

7. Pick a publishing day and stick to it. Publishing consistently and on schedule is a must early on. Later on, you can probably deviate, but early on, it’s about establishing a cadence you can maintain and that your audience can expect as they work you into their podcast rotation. I’m fully violating this with Melanin MVP, but it’s also not growing quickly so this is probably a factor in that.

8. Experiment with new episode formats. After 120+ interviews, I got bored. Not with my guests, but with the format. I tested the waters last April with a solo show and experimented with season recap episodes for season 3. All 3 episodes were smashing hits. They took a little more to produce on the post-production side, but they gave my audience a change of pace. Your download numbers likely won’t tell you directly, but you’ll see the difference in comments and DMs when people are pleasantly surprised by something different.

9. Podcasts aren’t controlled by an algorithm. This is both a great thing and a challenging thing. Having your show on Apple podcasts or Spotify makes it easy to find, as these platforms don’t go in and out style like social platforms. However, they also lack the discovery tools that social platforms have. People aren’t casually scrolling a podcast app for hours each day, so the likelihood of someone running across your show directly on Spotify is unlikely. Typically, if you have a popular guest or SEO-friendly topic, that will help with being found via search. But ultimately, it’s up to you to find your audience, as audio streaming platforms don’t truly help with that. There is the YouTube caveat, but most people don’t really understand how to package their show for YouTube, which is a whole other beast I can’t even start on in this article.

10. Truly stay in touch with your guests. Don’t treat your guests like engagement bait. Treat them like people. I’ve had repeat guests on the show, and I regularly talk to many of the folks I’ve had on the show. I run into them at industry and community events, and we often work on other projects together. Guests can be critical parts of your network and are often the best advocates for your show early on, so treat them as such.

11. Find a way to stay in touch with your listeners. Podcast apps don’t have a comments section, though Spotify is trying to fix that. Creating a newsletter, community chat/discord, going on YouTube or Substack Live, and making YouTube community posts are all ways to have direct conversations with your audience. Your listeners will often give great guest suggestions, make warm intros to potential guests if they’re able, and give you feedback directly instead of writing an official review on Apple or Spotify.

12. Conferences speed up your show quality. You meet other great podcasters, learn from them, and form connections with them. You get to experience incredible podcasts created by highly skilled teams that give you an idea of what you can improve on in your show (if you scream “sound design” loud enough, just make sure you also scream the name of a brand or organization willing to pay me to have someone do it). They’re great for finding brand partners, developing collaborations, and podcast team building.

You’ll notice that this list doesn’t include a whole lot about marketing, I think that’s a whole other topic for another article. Many of the things I do to market my show are specific to my show, which is a business interview show, and may not translate well to other types of podcasts. If that’s something you’d be interested in, let me know! Next week, I’ll be sharing top podcasts and newsletters that are created by women so stay tuned for that!

First Order of Community

We’re back with another live stream! Join us this afternoon on Substack at 3PM. Unfortunately, Substack doesn’t allow you to schedule a live stream so there’s no RSVP link. You can watch from your computer and the app, and the recording will be available once the live stream is over. This week we’re talking newsletters and community (and Corey has hot takes on both). Can’t wait to see you all in the chat!

I’ve really loved celebrating Women’s History Month and the 5th anniversary of Honey & Hustle with y’all. I’ve received so many kind messages these past few weeks, and I thought I’d share a few here with you. The messages warm my often-aloof heart more than you know. Thank you all for being a part of this journey with me.